Ask Us Anything #1: Selecting Markets, Advice for First Time Buyers, Loan Types & Flipping Costs

This is our first ever AMA, where we answer listener submitted questions.  --- Transcript:   Emil: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the remote real estate investor. My name is Emil Shour and I am joined by Tom Schneider, Michael Albaum. And today we are doing our first ever AMA, ask me anything. So we posted an episode, a short episode last week, asking you guys to submit any questions you have to us. And, we also posted on social. So we've got a combination of people dialing in people asking us questions on social that we're going to tackle in today's episode. So let's start answering some questions.   Theme Song   Emil: All right, guys, tell me how excited are you to answer these listener submitted questions today?   Michael: Before Tom goes, I'm the most excited I win.   Tom: Aah, I'm really excited. And honestly, I think this can be kind of a recurring segment. So some of the stuff that we all do is we also do webinars with rooftop webinars, go check it out. Really great webinars. Anyways, we just like save time at the end for questions. And there's always so many good questions that we don't have time for. It's like it could be its own segment. So I think this whole AMA thing on the podcast could have some legs and be as core sort of a recurring thing. Like maybe we throw an episode in the middle of the week or talking about this before. So with that said, do not stop submitting questions. Just keep firing them in, and we will get to them. I think it could be a longterm thing that we do on the podcast.   Michael: We're going to start a question bank, so to speak. So it keeps sending the questions like Tom said, and we will get to them as soon as we can. Whenever we have time on these AMA episodes, I think it's just so great because the whole point of this podcast was to give the people what they want. And so now that we're getting questions directly from listeners, I think that's super, super valuable. And chances are, if you have a question, somebody else has it as well.   Tom: And I mean, what's fun about it is we as the host, like have some experience, but if there's stuff that's like outside of what we know we're going to bring in folks to help answer those questions. We have access to a lot of resources and a lot of smart people, so do not be shy about if it's a question, a little more novice or it's a little more advanced, we will get the right people in front of the microphone.   Emil: Yeah. And we actually, we've got a lot of good questions. A lot of these I'm curious about myself, so I'm hoping maybe you guys can help answer them. Cause I'm like, Hmm. Some of these are really good. I don't have experience with these. So, all right. Let's start, let's start tackling. Some are the first one we have is submitted by Shailen. Let's, listen to that question right now.   Shailen: All three of you have spoken about how you live, I think in Southern California, but you manage properties all over the country. How are you familiar with those other areas? Have you lived there before? If not, is there, do you travel there to figure out what a good neighborhood is? Rootstock has neighborhoods, but it's hard to know exactly what these mean for renters. If you've never lived there or visited there, can you elaborate more on the remote investing concept? Should you have three to five properties in one city or town before you go to the next town? Or are there some locations where you only have one property that you own?   Emil: All right. So great question all around. How do you choose a market as a real estate remote real estate investor? So this is a massive topic and we actually covered it on a previous episode, episode 21 called the art and science of choosing a real estate market, where we do a deep dive on how do you actually choose a real estate market? It's a long conversation. We spent about 40 minutes talking about it. So Shailen, definitely recommend you go check that one out. Some of the other things you asked about, do you choose one market and buy one property there or do you choose a market and buy several from personal experience? I have, but single properties in different markets. I have markets where I just have one property and I actually recommend people not do that. Now, just from my personal experience, I think it's probably better to choose one or two markets get really knowledgeable on that. Know what properties sell for. You're just, it's harder to be good at many markets versus choosing one or two and, and getting really good there. So even though I've done the one property in multiple markets, it's not necessarily what I recommend for other people. You guys have anything else to anything that there?   Tom: Yeah, you don't necessarily, I mean, just, you know, we had that episode, but to kind of just a Tom note on the topic is you don't necessarily have to go to the market, but have some parameters in the way that you're selecting a market. Be it population, be it like what type of economy is going on and diverse economy. So don't do the, throw the dart at the map method, like have some insight on how you select a market, but you know, you definitely don't need to, necessarily to go there and also to get educated on the market with regards to the different pockets and know what kind of expected returns that you would get be it gross yield. So when you're evaluating a deal, you have some context of this is a good property based on this area, or just wherever you decide to do an investing in market, just get educated on the market. Okay.   Michael: And just to echo that Shailen last thing that I'll add is if you're going to be remote investing, you're going to be relying on a lot of people to be your eyes and ears. Anyhow, most notably is probably going to be your property manager. So this is a great opportunity to start putting that relationship to the test and utilizing people that are remote. Anyhow, because if you go, if you need to go and physically be there in order to make decisions, well, anytime a big decision needs to be made. If you need to go get on a plane or get in the car and go drive there, that makes for just a tougher ownership process. So just consider that when you're thinking about investing at a distance property, managers can be your best friend   Emil: And Shailen asked about the Roofstock neighborhood rating. And so for people who aren't familiar with that, Tom, can you give a background on that? I know you have on previous episodes and you always describe it very well.   Tom: Neighborhood score, excellent point. So I think in a future episode, we're going to bring on someone from the data science team to get a little bit more into the weeds, but at a very high level, Roofstock pays a bunch of money for data. A data that has to do with historical population changes, changes in the economy, crime school, as well as forecasting out. So the neighborhood score is the synthesis of all that data that Roofstock collects. And it presents a simple one to five star score of five being, wow, this is a neighborhood that we think would make a great investment with regards to lower risk and better opportunity for appreciation where a one-star would be higher risk though. So that is the neighborhood score at a super high level, but I'm writing down as a note, we're going to bring on the data science team on an episode and grill them into the details of the Roofstock neighborhood score.   Emil: Awesome And again, for anyone who wants a real long, deep dive of how to choose a remote market, make sure you listen to Episode 21 called The Art and Science of Choosing a Real Estate Market.   Tom: All right, Robin from Wisconsin says, I love the show. You guys are super helpful in past episodes. You guys have mentioned you prefer investing in Metro areas versus suburban. How do you define Metro and why is it your preference? Do you consider cities with populations close to 200,000, like Akron, Birmingham, Greensboro to be Metro areas? Is there a population cutoff? So I'll take the first stab at this when I think of a Metro and I'm sure there is like a technical definition for that, but I think of a collection of cities that would like make an area. And also just to be clear, like, I don't think suburbs are bad. I think rural areas are a little bit risky just because there's typically not a very diverse economy, but I think suburbs are great. And actually a lot of my investments are in the suburbs of big cities, but back to kind of asking about defining a Metro, I think of it as a greater area. So if I'm thinking about Dallas, I would be inclusive of Arlington Fort worth. They're all kind of like within striking range of each other. I live over in Northern California in the suburbs of San Francisco. And I would say the Metro of that, you know, San Francisco would be Oakland, San Jose, Walnut Creek, Concord. So I think of Metro as kind of the broader, this wouldn't be too crazy of a drive to do, you know, maybe like an hour to drive across that area.   Michael: To piggyback off Tom's point. I don't have a population cutoff. I don't really think about Metro in the traditional sense because in different parts of the country, it can mean different things to different people. And so I'll usually call a property manager and say, Hey, if someone's going to work in the main employment corridor or whatever that looks like, whether it's financial district, that's the downtown area I'll ask, where is someone willing to live? Where are people that are working here living? And if the property manager tells me, Oh, and these areas great, that's my radius. If you will. I've invested in pretty rural areas, several hours outside of st. Louis. And there wasn't a whole lot of economy there, but there was a military base. And so that for me said, okay, this is good enough. Granted, I was pretty green, not, I don't know if I would make that investment again, but I got really lucky. So I'm less scientific when it comes to identifying a Metro and looking for markets to invest in and the population regard.   Emil: Yeah. I'm with you guys. I mean, for me, it's not even about urban or suburban. I dunno if that was part of the question, more so it's choosing a market that I think is good. And so like you mentioned St. Louis, St. Louis is one I invest in as well, and I'm in a suburb. That's probably like 20 minutes outside of the city. And I'm okay with that. As long as, like you said, people are usually commuting from the suburbs into the city as well. What I care more about is how is that city doing overall in terms of population growth are the returns there for what I'm looking for, those kinds of things. And so one thing that Tom had mentioned in one of our previous episodes that I really like is, is it a big enough city where there's at least one professional sports team? I think that's kind of like 1% rule, 2% rule. I think that's a great just first sniff test to make sure a market is even worth investing in, at least for me, I know people will invest in some of these, some tertiary markets let's call it like a Birmingham or something where there isn't..   Tom: We're going to count AAA base And the Birmingham bombers or whatever they're called. That counts, their in.   Emil: They're going to break through to the MLB soon   Tom: AA baseball is smaller, but AAA, it counts. Yeah!   Emil: So, you know, there are people investing there who are doing really well, but just for me personally, I've always liked that as a good test. Like, is there even a professional sports team? Is this a big enough city to have a professional sports team? And those are the kinds of cities I choose to invest in.   Tom: And just to correct myself, it's the Birmingham barons and they're affiliated with the Chicago white Sox from 1986 to the present. Yeah. So go ahead. Continue.   Emil: That's it. I'm done.   Michael: All right. Let's move on. Alright, Maddie from Facebook is asking and big shout out to Mattie. She's a friend of mine. She says, what is your advice for a first time home buyer looking to invest in real estate or buy their first property? So I talk a lot in the Academy about this and something that's kind of a hybrid of the two, because it's not necessarily a black or white decision of, I have to invest in rental property, or I have to purchase a property for me to live in is a house hack. And so if you are willing to kind of be a bit of a landlord in your own home, how's, that can be a really great way to go. And for those of you who don't know what a house hack is, basically what it involves is buying a property that has more space or rooms than you need for yourself or your family and renting out the other space or rooms.   So whether that's buying a four bed house and renting out their three rooms or buying a duplex triplex or quad, you can live somewhere and make cashflow alongside living potentially for free. So it's a really great way to get involved with real estate investing as well as tackle having a to live. And so if that's not within your budget, something that I talk a lot about is that I invested out of state for 10 years and was renting the whole time. And so in my market that just made sense to do. And so I said, you know what? I'm going to invest in, invest and invest and generate enough cashflow to ultimately at one point in time, purchase a property and have my cash flowing assets pay for that primary residence, which is something I've been lucky enough to have done.   Tom: Yeah. Similar situation I rented for a while, while owning rental properties. I think you're right, Michael, in that it's a product of where we live in that getting into a house to own and live in is just wildly expensive versus being able to buy an investment property. But my piece of advice would be two parts. One have a process, have a buy box. And so you're making these decisions, not subjectively. And the second one would be to have a bias for action. And I've been saying there's a lot lately. I think a lot of people get into paralysis by analysis. They overthink it. They're trying to make their best deal, their first deal. But that's, I guarantee you, that's not going to be the case. And there's just so much value to getting into the game.   Michael: Put me in coach, give me a chance.   Tom: Yeah.   Emil: Yeah. I love what you guys mentioned here. My only addition here, and this is a personal opinion, a lot of people might look at their primary residence as an investment. And I never look at it like an investment. I think it's a place where you call it your own. It's a place to raise your family. And there's a lot of benefits of owning your own home. It might end up being an investment, right? You could choose somewhere that appreciates. And if you think about it, your mortgages in a way, like some for savings as you pay down your loan and you build some equity, but considering that they front load a lot of the interest in your principal, payment is low in the beginning. I don't see it as much of an investment. So if you're looking at this as which one is the better investment, I think you're better off going and buying rental properties. Cause those are, you treat those like an investment, whereas your home, it's a personal decision that you make because you want a home. You want to, for whatever reason. So that's the only thing I'd add here.   Tom: I'm going to digress just a little bit. It's really funny. The offer making process of an investment property versus your personal residence. Cause like with an investment property, it's like, you know, I feel really good saying no and walking away, this is my firm number. Oh, you don't want, I'll get outta here. And then with your personal property, it's like, you know, you have your significant other. And it's like, Oh, they countered this much. I'm like, Oh, we should probably do it. I really want that house. The psychology of the negotiation process is just, I'm not good at doing it on my personal property, but for like my investment properties, I'm pretty disciplined. It's just really funny how the psychology of it is pretty different.   Emil: A hundred percent   Michael: Just to add to that. The primary property that I bought, I knew that it would one day become a rental. So I evaluated it like a rental. And so I was able to go in with the offer because I would have that same issue Tom so I treated it like a rental throughout the entirety of the process.   Tom: Incepted yourself   Michael: That’s right!   Emil: It's such an emotional decision buying your primary residence. You know, you walk in, you're like, we love this. We love the location. We love the kitchen, the layout. And you're like, it's, it changes things. It becomes an emotional purchase, not one that's necessarily rational. All right, next question is from an anonymous voicemail. We bats. So let's listen to it on that one.   Anonymous: Hey there Roofstock. What's the best type of loan or a short term, single family home, an arm, a balloon loan, 30 year fixed, what would you guys recommend. Thanks.   Tom: All right. So good question. So when you say short term rental, that could mean a couple different things. Is it a short time horizon that you're owning the property? Cause I think that's really relevant for the type of lending that you're getting. If you're talking about short term rental, as in just like a vacation rental, I would say, get, you know, whatever best terms you can get, I'm going to riff for a second on your hold period. Cause you can get a lot of cost savings in thinking about what type of loan to choose if you know, how long you want to hold the property for. So if you're planning to hold this with like a five year time horizon, that could be a good scenario where you would get an adjustable rate mortgage like you were referencing, just because the rates that you can get with an adjustable rates, those during that initial period can be significantly less expensive. There's risk in that if you're planning for a longer hold time, say like a 10 or 30 or whatever, how long, just because after that initial teaser period, the rates will jump up to whatever market rate is. So you get yourself in a little bit of risk. So my answer to your question and to paraphrase really quickly is if you plan to hold for a short period of time, it would definitely be advantageous to look at what kind of rates you can get with either a five to one arm or a 10 to one. But if you're planning to hold for a longer period, I wouldn't recommend that just because it's hard to say where interest rates are going to go and you're going to be subject to wherever the market rates are at. And if it is like a short term, as in like a vacation rental, I'd say get whatever best rates that you can get according to your planned hold time.   Michael: Piggybacking off Tom's answer. I think whole time is really the end all be all the determining factor here. And what's going to dictate kind of looking backwards. What type of loan you should get. I would say that if your whole time is five years, look at a seven year arm. And if your whole time in seven years look at a 10 year arm, because we have no idea what the market conditions are going to be like in five years from now. So you don't want to be forcing yourself to sell a property in five years because well, the market's in the tank. And so you can't sell for... Can't make a profit on your deal and interest rates have gone up. And so that will often lower sales prices and purchase prices because their purchasing power has been diminished. So give yourself a little bit of breathing room. I would say above and beyond what your plan hold period is. And also a lot of times the savings to be held on arms aren't materially significant. And what I mean by that is if you're different than monthly payment is 50 bucks a month, you've got to decide for yourself, okay, is that $50 a month savings with a lower interest rate, worth it to have a shorter term interest term versus getting the 30 year fixed, which you know is never going to change the life of that loan. You could always refinance if rates drop that kind of thing. So the 30 year long time horizon should be significantly more expensive in order to deter you into an arm, I would say.   Emil: All right, next question is coming from Elan, who submitted on Facebook, Elan is asking, how can we estimate flipping costs? How deep should we go into flip? I, how much should we spend on a remodel? All right. So Elan's question is around flipping costs. How do you estimate those out?   Michael: There's a really great book that Bigger Pockets put out that's titled Estimating Rehab Costs. I'm pretty sure that's the title. And I think that can be a really great place to start. Um, and there's no substitute, I would say for getting a quote, an estimate from contractors and get numerous quotes and estimates and bids from numerous contractors, because everybody's going to have a little bit different price. That would be your best way as to how to estimate those costs. And then also chatting with local investors, local property managers, as to ballpark costs, they're going to have rough ideas of what things cost in that given market. And that's going to vary from market to market. So we can't say, Oh, do we have a house in San Francisco is going to cost the same to rehab a house in Northern Kentucky. Those two markets just aren't the same.  And as far as how far to go on your rehab or on your remodel, that also, I would suggest talking to your property manager because they're going to be able to give you some insight into what upgrades are going to bring you the most rent. Also chatting with an agent about what upgrades are going to bring in the most resale value. Once you've targeted your demographic, who you're going to sell to whether that's owner occupants or whether that's in other investors, because an investment flip is very different than an owner occupant flip. So that's what I would say on that.   Tom: Yeah. And my feedback, a really common process for these type of flippers is you partner, you have a general contractor who knows exactly what you're doing that you trust and you have some sort of relationship with, and you get a property in contract and during your inspection contingency, that's when you can have him go and price everything out. So you have that contingency to get out. If the deal doesn't pencil out, but the real key takeaway is don't buy a property and then try to figure out what the costs are like, have that as a part of your process is during your transaction contingency. So you can get out if it doesn't pencil, you know, you make your best guess when you're submitting an offer on what you think the costs are going to be. And that's where the, you know, books like Bigger Pockets books is really great. But once you actually have money, skin in the game with an earnest money deposit and you're in a transaction, you want to get that number of what it's going to be. And sure, there's sometimes going to be surprises of when they open up a wall or whatnot, but you're putting your best foot forward during the transaction period of getting an actual cost from contractor partner or, you know, vendor that you're using, that you can use real numbers when making that decision to close the transaction. So that would be my feedback.   Emil: Cool. And then, yeah, last thing is, you know, if you're working with an agent in the area and they're going and looking at homes for you, depending on how you're buying. So one thing I like to do when I'm vetting agents is ask them if they are not like, can they walk through the property and give you at least some idea of estimation, right? Like, okay, a new floor, this much square footage, how much is that going to cost? A lot of them will actually be pretty upfront with you. They'll say I'm not really good at that, but I have a general contractor I work with who can come with me when we inspect it and look at it and do all of that. So that's kind of one thing I like to vet and ask for. Just cause again, we're relying on a team boots on the ground there. So leveraging their knowledge and experience to help us make all these estimates. All right. So we still actually have a lot more questions that we didn't get a chance to go through today that we're going to cover in a future episode, like Michael mentioned, keep submitting these questions. We'll just keep doing future AMS to tackle whatever questions you guys have. And with that, we'll catch you guys in the next episode.   Tom: Happy Investing   Michael: Happy Investing